Meet The BRAINTRUST | Patrick Jacobs, Co-Founder @ Immerss

Welcome to another great episode of The RetailWire podcast!

In this episode, we kick off our "Meet The BRAINTRUST" series, where we get to know members of the BRAINTRUST by RetailWire a bit better.

Meet Patrick Jacobs, co-founder of Immerss, a groundbreaking startup revolutionizing the way we shop online. In this episode, we dive into Patrick's impressive background in cable TV and retail, and how it led him to create Immerss, a live commerce platform like no other.

Immerss brings the in-store experience to your fingertips, offering one-to-one digital clienteling and live stream shopping for high-end products. From fashion and jewelry to cosmetics, home decor, and furniture, Immerss is here to humanize your e-commerce journey. Imagine having a personal concierge guiding you through your shopping experience, answering questions about fit, style, and design. It's like having your own expert right there with you.

But it wasn't all smooth sailing for Immerss. Being ahead of the market, they initially faced challenges getting brands on board with this innovative technology. However, they've seen a tremendous uptake from retailers who want to offer these amazing services to their customers. And the results speak for themselves. Immerss has witnessed an increase in average order value and a significant reduction in returns.

Now, Immerss is taking things to the next level by incorporating AI into their platform. This means even better product suggestions and improved customer communication. But amidst all the advancements, they never lose sight of the importance of empathy towards customers. It's a characteristic they believe is key to success in the retail industry.

In this episode, Patrick shares his personal journey and the lessons he's learned along the way. He emphasizes the power of making progress every day, rather than getting too high or low emotionally when running a business. He draws inspiration from Pat Riley's philosophy, where even a 1% improvement from the whole team each year leads to significant growth.

If you're as intrigued by live commerce as we are, Patrick is open to discussing it with anyone interested. Reach out to him on LinkedIn or elsewhere. And don't forget to subscribe to our eNewsletter at RetailWire.com, where we discuss three exciting news stories every weekday. We love hearing from our audience, so leave a comment for a chance to have it read on the next show.

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Connect with Patrick Jacobs: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickjacobs/

RetailWire is the retail industry's premier source for news, analysis, and discussion. With a focus on the latest trends, technology, and consumer behavior, RetailWire provides a platform for industry experts and thought leaders to share their insights and perspectives. Whether you're a retailer, supplier, or service provider, RetailWire is your go-to destination for staying informed and ahead of the curve.

Be sure to leave us a comment and let us know what you think. You might even hear your comment read on the next episode!

To learn more, or to join our Daily Discussions, visit RetailWire.com.

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:05

The Show, bringing you the very best in expert analysis, insights and discussions straight from some of the retail industry's leading experts. Whether you're a retailer looking to stay ahead of the curve, a supplier navigating the ever changing retail landscape, or someone who just really loves retail, we've got you covered. Get ready.

Patrick Jacobs: 0:37

Hey, everybody.

Brian Crum: 0:38

Welcome to the RetailWire podcast meet. We're on the second episode of the Retail Wire podcast and already kicking off what I am considering, a new series of ours called Meet the Brain Trust. Joining me in the studio today, I've got Patrick Jacobs here. He's one of our Brain Trust members. You can see him in all of his splendor right here. I'll tell you what, you're going to get to know about him, who he is, and just kind of how he came alongside of Retail Wire here as part of our Brain Trust. Also he's in a pretty cool industry, too. So, Patrick, how are you doing, man? Welcome to the show.

Patrick Jacobs: 1:15

Thank you, buddy. Yeah, friday afternoon. I'm doing great.

Brian Crum: 1:18

Yeah, I'm telling you, man, it's almost beer 30, right? That's what were saying.

Patrick Jacobs: 1:23

It's what were talking about just a couple of seconds ago.

Brian Crum: 1:27

Tell you what, it's been a good week here now. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Who are you? What makes Patrick Jacobs.

Patrick Jacobs: 1:39

Yeah, I bet if you looked up and down the roster of the Brain Trust, I'm probably the newest entry by a considerable margin into the retail industry. Retail is pretty new to me for the last couple of years. I grew up in Oklahoma City, pretty normal kind of upbringing. Went to school in Colorado, ended up in the cable TV industry to get started. Worked at Showtime for a number of years and then ended up spinning off and helping start a cable network called MAV TV, which is kind of an outdoor adventure sports network. That was really kind of my first dip in the entrepreneurial waters. That's kind of when I realized that I enjoyed trying to create stuff and grow stuff. And so that was a great experience. We were able to run that for about seven or eight years and ended up being able to sell that to Lucas Oil. Tried a couple more little things in the media space that had of success and then ended up in Ecommerce somehow. A buddy of mine had started an outdoor kind of journal, for lack of a better description. What he was trying to build was, let's find some really curated, unique outdoor gear that is tough to find and then let's marry that with some really strong outdoor educational content to where you can go and plan an adventure and we give you an outfit. All the stuff that you need to have to do that. I was kind of in charge of that brand discovery, like, who are those brands? And negotiating, purchasing and all of that. That was really kind of my first taste of kind of what certainly digital commerce looked like and a bit of retail as well, and learned a lot in that journey and ended up unwinding that. That's how we kind of fell into Immerse. Met my co founder Arthur a few years back and kind of had this theory that live video is going to become a more prevalent place in retail and commerce and just in connecting people, and that's kind of how Immerse was born.

Brian Crum: 3:47

That's pretty awesome. Now we're going to get into Immerse here in just because I did of looking at your website, some stuff like that, and a lot of people don't know that you're the co founder of Immerse, so that will come up here in a second. So where are you at? You said you grew up in Oklahoma. Where are you at now?

Patrick Jacobs: 4:05

Yeah, I'm in Dallas. Down in Dallas, Texas. What took you there? Three kids? Showtime, actually. Yeah, the cable business. I was working in Denver for Showtime. An opportunity popped up. I hated to leave Colorado because I'm a big skier, mountain bike, fly fishing, just love all of the mountain stuff. It was just a time in my life where I was able to get back, get closer to family, and the opportunity at work just really kind of made sense to go ahead and leave at that point.

Brian Crum: 4:37

Yeah, absolutely. What's your favorite place to ski at?

Patrick Jacobs: 4:42

Well, probably Vale, just because that's where I've done the most at. And it's just such a huge mountain. There's just so much terrain. You've got all the backside stuff, crest of Butte. I grew up skiing a lot too, and has a real soft place in my heart. I love just in terms of like a local kind of get out there and knock it around Arapo Basin. I always have a good time when I ski a Basin, too. Those would probably be the three that if I had a week left to live and I could ski three places, I'd probably pick those three.

Brian Crum: 5:16

Nice. That's fantastic. Yeah, it's been a little while since I've been skiing, so maybe you'll have to get me back out on the slope sometime.

Patrick Jacobs: 5:24

For sure.

Brian Crum: 5:25

You're a skier, you grew up in Oklahoma, now you're in Dallas, got taken down there by Showtime, kind of the TV industry stuff. Cable industry, I should say. How did you get in touch with Braintrust here at retail? Wire.

Patrick Jacobs: 5:42

Yeah, so I'm here in Dallas, like I said, and as were kind of rolling out Immerse and trying to figure out what retail was all about, we thought that we had a problem identified that were going to solve with Immerse, but needed to certainly bounce that off people who were smarter than us. Steve Dennis, who's here in Dallas, was actually the first one to make the intro to retail Wire and said, hey, you guys are doing some pretty cool stuff. They've got this thing called the brain trust. It'd be great for you to get involved, start meeting some of the people, and really start getting more involved there just to kind of learn some of the ins and out of the industry. Steve is the one who had initially kind of made that introduction.

Brian Crum: 6:25

Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, steve's a great guy. I'm glad to have him with us as well. We've got 140 people so far, and we're growing. We got a few more applicants in there. You're going to lose your newest member status pretty soon here.

Patrick Jacobs: 6:44

I'm a grizzled veteran now of the retail industry.

Brian Crum: 6:46

Yeah. I feel like in retail, and especially in the space you're in, you're talking about live commerce and everything. I think what being an expert or being in the industry, I should say for six months to a year, probably puts you at the forefront. If you're truly immersed in that one specific area, it really does set you apart. Right. So talk about Immerse. What is immerse? You said live commerce. What is that? Just about where you're headed with it.

Patrick Jacobs: 7:20

Yeah, it is. It's live commerce, which you can put any kind of definition around it, but really the way that we look at it is the ability in a live environment to be able to sell more product. Right. And so we have two distinct products. We have a one to one digital clienteling where a customer can be on a website, on a product page, have a question about something, click it. We've tracked that customer journey throughout that session. It rings into either an in store associate that could be in a call center, that could be remote, that could be at home, wherever, and from that point, they're able to get that guided kind of shopping experience like they would in a store. Really kind of the problem that we're trying to solve is there's call it 25. I think NRF had 22% at some point in terms of in store conversion rate. Right. The likelihood that you're going to buy something if you walk into a store. We know that's anywhere from call it 20% to 30%, you are killing it if you're even sniffing close to 2%. Right. That's more of kind of a 1% thing. There's a huge gap right there, and there's a myriad of reasons why that delta exists. What we're trying to do is close that gap and really attack that space between that conversion rate in store and the conversion rate online and how can we lessen that gap? Our hypothesis was that by being able to for certain products this certainly isn't for everybody, but for brands or retailers that have higher consideration products or higher priced products, that maybe it takes more of a leap of faith in an online setting to be able to purchase those. If you had that guided kind of concierge, virtual, in store experience, conversion rates would tick up, and that's what we saw. Using Immerse, an online purchase converts about the same as it does in store, somewhere around that 30% to 31% range. That was really kind of the genesis of that piece. We also have a live stream shopping component, too. Okay, but it's all about the live piece.

Brian Crum: 9:34

Yeah. You said that there were certain brands or products, things like that. Obviously don't say any of the proprietary stuff or any of the don't give away anything, but is there a certain category or kind of a line of stuff that you see really seeing great success and really just seeing a massive growth by using a platform like Immerse?

Patrick Jacobs: 10:00

Yeah, I mean, apparel, obviously. Well, especially higher end, we stay away from using the word like luxury, but just items that are higher priced because you have fit, you have styling. There's lots of questions that can come with that. Jewelry, cosmetics in the beauty space, home decor. Right. Couches, furniture, things you're not quite sure.

Brian Crum: 10:31

What'S going to fit in your house.

Patrick Jacobs: 10:32

Right? Yeah. Look, if I'm in my house and I'm in my living room and you're there in a showroom and are an expert on design or whatever, I can flip my camera around and show you exactly where I want this piece to go. Hey, I need a dresser for it right here. Look at it. Brian, you have any suggestions? And then boom. You can just suggest products so that whole back and forth, two way live video piece lends itself really well for that. Those are a handful of the verticals that we're paying close attention to.

Brian Crum: 11:07

Man, that's awesome. That's really cool because I could see that being an extremely helpful tool. Like you're saying, we're looking for a new couch. We're looking for something to sit around in our dining area here that could be extremely useful for saying, hey, I do think it will fit, or have you considered looking at this or kind of giving that helpful, concierge approach? Right? I mean, that seems like what it is.

Patrick Jacobs: 11:36

That's it. Yeah, you nailed it. Hit the nail around the head. It's just all about really humanizing that ecommerce experience, which is really one of the biggest things that's lacking. There's only so much that you can convey in images and copy points and text specs and things like that. Really talk to somebody who knows that product in and out. You should be converting at a pretty high rate.

Brian Crum: 11:59

Our customers are, and that's really awesome. Were there any struggles in the areas, I guess kind of as you were learning how to bring Immerse about and how to really start getting brands on board with this live commerce idea? What was one of your pain points that you guys experienced that was kind of maybe a hard disconnect for some people to really grasp?

Patrick Jacobs: 12:27

Well, I mean, part of the problem and this I think comes from a we're still ahead of the market, right? Our technology is still advanced further than I think what the market is having in terms of adoption right now. But that gap is shrinking too. Our first kind of thought was that we should be going after in terms of client acquisition, smaller SMB, single store, maybe digitally native brands just because we could get to the decision maker quicker, right? We're a startup. We're wanting to grow. We're wanting to be able to get what we would really consider more of kind of a design partner for the platform versus like a customer. They were paying us, but they were really there to tell us what features were important to them and what weren't. We got up and developed a shopify app. We're up on the shopify app store thinking, hey, we're just going to set this up and these small brands are going to be able to come find us and everybody's going to be all over it. One of the things that we found out is that you've really got to have a brand or a retailer that has the infrastructure in place, has the human capital in place to be able to execute on this. Most ecommerce tools, right, are there to remove the human element and to automate as best as you possibly can and to simplify and to remove the number of hands on a process. This really flips it on its head. This is about no use. Your human assets, which are the people who really should be your most valuable assets in your store, are the people working there that know your product in and out and leverage those people to really start to sell. We've identified more of kind of what our ideal customer profile is, which is certainly larger, more established brands and retailers that have a team of people that can really run with us versus just this is just another checkbox on the founder or the owner or whoever's list of things to do. That was a key learning for us.

Brian Crum: 14:32

Absolutely. Was there anything that kind of on the opposite end of that scale? Was there anything that really took you by surprise in a really positive way that was like, wow, there was an added benefit here that we didn't even think about? Or maybe something came about a lot faster or easier for you.

Patrick Jacobs: 14:51

They're more intuitive now, but when were just kind of launching this, it was really about, again, closing that gap between in store conversion rates and online conversion rates and how can we try to mirror those in store conversion rates as close as possible. Two things that we really hadn't thought of. One is the amazing lift in average order value that we're seeing. We're seeing some people have AOV lifts of more than 60% when using us. That's a product of a some of the higher priced items. Right. Maybe getting used for this because they're more higher consideration. We see more items per transaction on sales that go through our platform than just the regular organic channels. Because you've got the ability to say, like, hey, Brian, that's a great selection on those pair of boots. How about a belt for that? Or how about we, do you want to look at some shirts while you got there? I've got a couple of things I can grab off the rack and show you. It's just that ability to have a trained sales associate there that's incentivized and commissioned to continue to kind of ramp up that cart value. We see that. The second thing is returns, right. That is a huge issue, as we all know, for retailers and brands increasingly.

Brian Crum: 16:03

Right.

Patrick Jacobs: 16:03

Pretty significant. Yeah, for sure. We see a pretty drastic reduction in returns. Call it I think it's around 25, 26% kind of across all of our customers, because you're able to get the right product in the customer's hand the first time. It makes sense that returns should go down because you should be able to really narrow down what it is that customer is wanting. Those were the two things that were certainly KPIs we pay really close attention to now that in the beginning really weren't on our radar.

Brian Crum: 16:34

Yeah. Now that's really awesome to see because while you were talking about that opportunity to kind of upsell is what it is, but it's that personal approach to seeing, here's what they're interested in. Let me see if I can increase your average order price, your size, everything like that one company that came to mind for me that used to be killing it. Now, full disclosure, I haven't been inside one of these stores in a long time. But do you remember the store Buckle? Right? The retailer. Clothing retailer, buckle. That's one thing that I always was impressed by was their associates were trained to be that spotter for the next product that you might want. While you're in the dressing room, while you're trying on those pants, while you're trying on the shoes, hey, I thought this shirt would go really well with that. I'm just going toss it over the door, you check it out, see what you think. If you don't like it, throw it back out. No big deal. I think what you guys are doing is really taking that same approach. That's what we're all about. At retail wire anyways. I think it plays exactly to this because it's about humanizing the brand again. It's about humanizing that experience, kind of getting it back into this custom feel. Man, I'm excited for that. I know. I'm excited to hear all this stuff. What are you most excited about? What's coming up for Immerse? I mean, obviously don't give away any secrets, but what area really just kind of gets you going on being excited for the growth in this specific niche?

Patrick Jacobs: 18:07

Yeah. One thing that we're starting to work on, it's not top secret, because I think everybody's starting to kind of dabble in it is AI. How can we leverage intelligence to be able to pass information on product suggestions on to sales associates to make their job easier? That this customer has looked at products A, B, and C. Therein we need to suggest product D, C, and E. Right. Just kind of being able to do that. That's one piece. The second piece is that a generative AI. Agent that can sit on the front end of this thing, that can learn the brand's product catalog, can learn the brand's culture, how a customer of ours, like Luke Casey talks. To their customers, where it may be very howdy all shucks and this and that is going to be different than a high end jeweler that we're working with. It's going to speak maybe more conservative and sophisticated and all of that. If we can dump chats into some vector program, that can then be able to really take on that brand's culture and that brand's voice and have that sit in front of now, certainly we want anybody to be able to connect to a human and live video like that. That's our bread and butter, right? That's really our secret sauce. If we can also be able to open this up to more brands like were talking about just a couple of minutes ago, that maybe don't have the human capital or the infrastructure in place to be able to manage all of these and be able to put something on the front end of that will reduce inbound calls by 70%. Because all of a sudden, this AI powered agent is able to communicate more effectively with the customer and maybe get those questions answered before a call is even placed using Immerse into it. That's coming. We're really just like everybody is with the whole AI thing blown away by the whole thing and excited to kind of dip our toe in the water in that space as well.

Brian Crum: 20:15

Yeah, absolutely. Now AI is definitely revolutionizing every aspect of retail at this point. I'm excited to see what comes even just on that topic. I've literally this week finally started diving into understanding what mid journey is and what it can do. My mind has been blown because I'm an outdoorsy guy so I'm able to kind of look up things that I might want to do and build a Jeep or something like that. Here's, what does it look like if I were to build something like this? I can throw in the description and it's there, I think that's AI, you guys are spot on. It's going to be huge for you.

Patrick Jacobs: 20:58

There's got to be some component to it, or you're going to look back in three or four years and be like, well, we missed the boat, so we're trying to be as forward thinking as possible.

Brian Crum: 21:07

Absolutely. You're not doing live commerce, I know you like to ski. There anything else that you're kind of into? There like a little hobby of yours that you just love to dive into?

Patrick Jacobs: 21:20

I've played in bands my entire life.

Brian Crum: 21:24

Okay.

Patrick Jacobs: 21:25

All the way through high school, garage bands, and college. After college, took a break when the kids were all kind of coming and didn't have a lot of time, but was able to pick it back up. Not too long ago, had recorded some music. That's really my kind of, I guess, passion. That's awesome. What do you play? I play guitar. Okay. Yeah, I play guitar. You sing and sing? Yeah.

Brian Crum: 21:54

There you go.

Patrick Jacobs: 21:55

Pipes, right?

Brian Crum: 21:57

That's right.

Patrick Jacobs: 21:58

Maybe on episode Immerse, episode two, we'll get into some music stuff, too.

Brian Crum: 22:05

Yeah.

Patrick Jacobs: 22:06

With a song or something.

Brian Crum: 22:08

It'd be a lot of fun. Right. I thinking of just got a few minutes left here, so I want to respect your time and everything, but when you think of getting into retail, when you think of everything that you've experienced kind of across the years, what do you think is important for people to remember? What characteristics or skills are there that you would say, hey, new and upcoming person, you need to really be paying attention to this. There's all the flashy stuff like the AI and all the new upcoming tech, but what does it take to really make it, I think, in retail and kind of in this space?

Patrick Jacobs: 22:53

Yeah, I think empathy.

Brian Crum: 22:57

Okay.

Patrick Jacobs: 22:57

Right. Being empathetic to a lot of retail experiences are not great. Right. That sometimes is not a product of the brand or the associate or whatever. It's just a product of humans interacting. I think that if you can bring empathy and the willingness to solve problems and to help right. A customer, regardless of whether you are stocking inventory or you're a frontline worker or wherever that may be, if you can be empathetic and enthusiastic about what you do, it's going to solve 95%, if not higher, of the problems that you're going to be able to face. I don't know. That was the thing that popped into mind that I feel like I've noticed in retail that is just a real important characteristic, is just being empathetic to what the customer needs.

Brian Crum: 23:59

I think that's a great point because there's a lot of skills and the technical stuff that you can train a lot of people. Having empathy and kind of being a natural connector with people, that's something that I think is harder to come by, especially in today's society where we spent the last couple of years separated. Having that touch, I think the brands right now, the brands, the organizations that are still holding on to those values, I think they're going to really pull ahead really quickly over the next couple of years. Even in light of the generative AI and machine learning that we're going into. I think it's actually going to complement each other. It's not going to replace one or the other.

Patrick Jacobs: 24:42

Right. I think you are spot on that for sure.

Brian Crum: 24:47

If there was one lesson that you could tell yourself 20 years ago or something that you're just hey, what's one key takeaway to use that corporate buzzword language, right? What's that key? Takeaway that. You got that's? Just like, hey, this is what I've learned. If I could impart of wisdom to the listeners today, here's what it is.

Patrick Jacobs: 25:16

I think, especially in a more entrepreneurial setting, that things are never as good as they appear and they're never as bad as they appear and that you've just got to keep putting 1ft in front of the other make. A little progress every day. Improve a little every day and not get too high and not get too low and try to kind of maintain an even keel. If you'll do that and repeat that process over and over again for a period of time, you'll go back and look and be like, I can't believe that we've made it this far and look how far we are and ahead. If in a startup world you lived and died by every good piece of or bad piece of news that you got, it would be pretty miserable. When I was younger, I did that, and it took me a while just to kind of reset my line of thinking and just make sure that I was just kind of keeping a nice steady pace throughout the good news and the bad news.

Brian Crum: 26:17

Yeah. The first thing that came to mind there was Pat Riley and how he led the Lakers. I don't know if you're familiar with that. The 1%. You don't have to grow overnight, but if the whole team gets 1% better every year, then you're much better off. Everybody gets rising tide So I think that's fantastic because like you said, that very first statement you said was, it's not always bad, as bad as it appears, it's not always as good as it appears. You got to just keep moving forward.

Patrick Jacobs: 26:51

Really?

Brian Crum: 26:51

That's awesome.

Patrick Jacobs: 26:52

Yeah.

Brian Crum: 26:53

Well, very cool. What else would you like people to know about you? There anything else that you're like I just didn't say it yet.

Patrick Jacobs: 27:04

Yeah, not at all. Other than I am an open book, you can always find me on LinkedIn. I love having conversations with people. I know that live commerce is something that is not for every brand. Always great discussions over there. Reach out that just wants to have a quick conversation about it, to find out if this is right for them, if the timing is right for them, if the way that their brand is set up is right for them. I'm happy to just be a sounding board about it because we're really excited about where it's all coming and where it's all headed. So, yeah, please feel free to catch me on LinkedIn or wherever. Yeah.

Brian Crum: 27:50

Of course, you can always find Patrick here and all the other brain trust members on RetailWire.com. Thanks again for being a part of our brain trust. Thanks for lending us your knowledge and your wisdom on this and it's been really great to get to hear about you, who you are and just kind of what you're up to. Man so look forward to seeing more of your comments on RetailWire.com. We got our daily discussions out there for anybody who's just tuning in and wrapping this first podcast up with us. If this is your first time hearing about Retail Wire, we do three news stories every single day, Monday through Friday, and you can jump in, give your opinions, give your thoughts on it. We don't necessarily break all the news, but we do like to break it down a lot.

Patrick Jacobs: 28:33

Patrick, again, always great discussions over there.

Brian Crum: 28:36

Absolutely. Thanks again for being with us and look forward to chatting with you again soon.

Patrick Jacobs: 28:40

Sounds great.

Speaker 2: 28:41

Thanks for tuning in to the RetailWire Podcast meet. We hope you enjoyed the episode. Be sure to subscribe to us on your favorite podcasting platform and leave us a comment for a chance to hear it read on the next show. See you next time here on the Retail Wire podcast.