The Evolution of Retail: A Conversation with Industry Expert Shelley Kohan

Have you ever wondered about the journey of a retail industry maven? Join me as I sit down with the dynamic Shelley Kohan, whose fascinating career started on the sales floor at Bloomingdale's and led to the lecture halls of the Fashion Institute of Technology. Shelley, who is also the Chief Strategy Officer at the Robin Report, Senior Contributor in Retail at Forbes, and the CEO and Founder of Shelmark Consulting Incorporated, unveils not just her journey into the retail world, but also how she has revolutionized the learning experience for her students with her commitment to updating course content according to the industry's rapid changes.

While we chat about her early days, Shelley takes us on a global tour, recalling her experiences growing up in Japan, Iran, and Germany. This rich multicultural background has shaped her understanding of the retail industry and how she deals with the constant changes this dynamic field presents. As we delve deeper into our conversation, you'll find Shelley's insights on the retail industry's challenges, especially in the aftermath of the pandemic, highly illuminating. She underscores the importance of embracing innovation and offers a candid look at how the pandemic has spurred the industry into rapid technological adaptation.

Ever pondered about how artificial intelligence can revolutionize retail? As we look into the future, Shelley and Brian delve into the transformative potential of AI. Listen to Shelley's intriguing examples of how AI can help make swift, precise decisions and reshape the conventional wholesale-retail model. We also discuss the future of customer experience in retail, underlining the significance of balancing physical retail and online shopping. To ensure you don't miss out on any of our enlightening future episodes, remember to hit the subscribe button!

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Connect with Shelley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shelley-e-kohan-310b9612/

Visit Shelley online: https://retailshelley.com/

RetailWire is the retail industry's premier source for news, analysis, and discussion. With a focus on the latest trends, technology, and consumer behavior, RetailWire provides a platform for industry experts and thought leaders to share their insights and perspectives. Whether you're a retailer, supplier, or service provider, RetailWire is your go-to destination for staying informed and ahead of the curve.

Be sure to leave us a comment and let us know what you think. You might even hear your comment read on the next episode!

To learn more, or to join our Daily Discussions, visit RetailWire.com.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to the Retail Wire Podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:07

Hey everyone, welcome back to another great episode here on the Retail Wire Podcast. You know what? It is a wonderful day today and we were just talking a little bit before this that. Not sure if it's the weather or what's going on, but y'all, if you're listening to this, has it just been weird lately? I don't know, maybe it's just me Joining me in the studio today I have got a really, really cool person. This person has been the associate professor at the Fashion Institute of Technology. She is chief strategy officer at the Robin Report. She is a senior contributor in retail at Forbescom, also on the board of directors at ClickDeal by eCommerce. She is the CEO and founder of Shellmark Consulting Incorporated and, of course, an esteemed member of the Brain Trust here at Retail Wire. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show, ms Shelley Kohan. Thank you so much.

Speaker 3: 1:05

It's so great being here. Thank you for inviting me.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Absolutely. Thanks for being here. I think I pronounced that right. right, It's Kohan.

Speaker 3: 1:13

You, sure it is, thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 1:16

Hey, you know we were joking and with the last name like Crumb. it's crazy how many people still get that one wrong. So whatever, but yeah, welcome to the show. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Who are you? I mean, obviously I read off the things you do, but who is Shelley? Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker 3: 1:36

Well, I guess I can start by saying I've literally spent the last few decades serving the retail industry. So in the first part of my career I really worked in general management and marketing, communications, merchandising and buying human resources, And so I really come from the industry. Like I graduated high school when I was 17. I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, like so many people, And I walked into Bloomingdale's in September I just turned 18 and I got a job on the sales floor And from that day forward I have been in the industry. So I literally live, drink, breathe, sleep, eat retail.

Speaker 2: 2:16

Yeah. So you just jumped in, 17, 18 years old, walked right in and we're like this is it? Let's go.

Speaker 3: 2:23

I do, and actually I'll tell you a fun little story. So my grandmother, my grandmother's cousin, owned a soda shop. So when I was like literally seven or eight years old, i would run around and I would take people's orders and bring them food.

Speaker 3: 2:36

So I worked in my grandmother's soda shop This is down in North Carolina. I really found that I really enjoyed serving people and like making people happy, so it kind of stuck with me. And then, if you fast forward to high school, i took a senior class called fashion something fashion class in high school And we took a field trip to a retailer called Garfinkels which you may not even remember down in Washington DC And I have to tell you I was blown away. I said, oh my God, i would love to work in this environment every day And then, that's what I've spent my at least my first part of my career literally in stores.

Speaker 2: 3:20

Oh, that's so good. So what was you know? you mentioned the people aspect and kind of the service element there. Would you say that was probably your favorite part of working in the stores, or was there another thing that was kind of like your highlight?

Speaker 3: 3:33

Yeah, i have so many highlights. The industry's been very good to me And I will tell you that when I first started on the sales floor, i loved serving customers, working with my coworkers being what we call on the floor. So if you're not in retail, you say, oh, we're on the floor. People don't know what that means, but, brian, you know what that means. I love being on the floor.

Speaker 3: 3:54

And then I got promoted into the buying offices at Bloomingdale's, became a buyer's assistant And I loved my buyer, loved her. She was amazing. First I had a male buyer, he was fantastic. Then I had a female buyer, both very instrumental and kind of role modeling me. But one thing I learned myself is I don't want to be in the office, i don't want to be looking at reports, i don't want to be looking at numbers, i want to be back. I want to go back to the stores. So after working in the buying offices I don't know, i guess it was about a year and a half or something like that I went back to the stores and I literally stayed in the stores for the next two decades until I got a corporate position. So I really just love being in the store environment.

Speaker 2: 4:35

Yeah Well, and then even moving out of the store environment and going to a corporate role, i mean, i would imagine, just based on that, do you still get out to stores in different retail environments? You probably do that pretty regularly, right?

Speaker 3: 4:48

I definitely. When I went to corporate even though it was a corporate job for Macy's West, i was director of logistics and I was responsible for about 85 Macy's stores And I knew the only way you can really be successful as a leader in our industry is by being in the trenches, walking. So responsibility for writing best practices, receiving merchandising I walked every receiving doc. I would be out in the stores. Then when I went to Bloomingdale's, i was operating vice president of the 59th Street store there on 59th Street, new York City. Wow, i would literally walk the store every day and I would talk to associates, sales associates, and here's a real funny story.

Speaker 3: 5:34

So I started at the Bloomingdale's 59th Street store when I went to college in New York when I was 18. I left. I went to California for 14 years. When I came back and I was operating vice president, there were still people there when I was there And I remember I walked up to this stock associate when I was operating vice president and I said hi, sharon, do you remember me? We worked together back in 1980, whatever, it was the same person. So it came full circle for me and that's great. And then I went to Saks Fifth Avenue and I was vice president of store operations again. So yeah, i was in the stores all the time.

Speaker 2: 6:12

Absolutely Well, and I think that goes back, i mean, here in my area of the world, here in Bentonville, arkansas, we have this little guy named Sam Walton that kind of did a big thing for the retail industry And what you're describing is exactly what he used to do, and that was go out and meet the people, sit down on the floor with them and just have that conversation of what's going well here, what's not. And so I think you're spot on with that, that it all comes down to that relationship, right, it comes down to knowing what's happening in the stores. You're not going to know by emails going back and forth or phone calls. You need to get out and you need to actually see it right, and so you feel connected. Then when you approached that stock associate, you were saying did she recognize you?

Speaker 3: 6:54

Well, it took her a minute because I was such a baby when I started.

Speaker 2: 7:00

Understood yeah.

Speaker 3: 7:01

She was blown away that I remembered her name from 14 years ago or however long it was. She was just blown away that I remembered her name. I saw her and I knew her name right away.

Speaker 2: 7:11

But I think that goes back to kind of what we're saying is, when people know that you care and then that's also going to improve the storm around right, and so she probably went about the right. I'm going to make a big assumption here and say she probably went about the rest of that day going wow, somebody remembered me. That's really cool. So I guess what I'm doing here probably does matter and and that's what a lot of us Don't think about is the impact that we can have just by remembering somebody's name, by remembering You know who they are, any detail about them, and so I think that's fantastic.

Speaker 3: 7:43

Yeah, retail is a people business. Absolutely but retail is definitely a people business.

Speaker 2: 7:50

Yeah, well, and, and you know there is an element to it, like you know, you mentioned being on the floor and You know, for a while I was actually I picked up back This is a decade or so ago Picked up an overnight job throwing freight at Sephora, and so you know, sephora doesn't have employees. They have, they have cast that's right.

Speaker 2: 8:10

So and so, when you're on stage is the front, because, no matter what you're there to serve and that is a performance It truly is a performance and even if you're having a crappy day, then they expect you to show up, go out, perform well and and really put your best foot forward, right? So I totally understand what you're saying about being on the floor, being on stage being that, that bubbly personality, because, because you truly are creating an experience for the customer.

Speaker 3: 8:40

Definitely. And I can't believe Ryan you just said that because there's two big lessons I learned early, early in my career. One was you were on stage a hundred percent. So I always knew. When I became a senior executive and a leader and, as you know, assistant general manager of a store or vice president of operations, i knew when I walked into that building, that store I was on stage, yep, and that was important. The other big lesson I learned in my executive training program back at iMagnon another nameplate that Unfortunately is no longer with us but is that you never get a second chance to make a first great impression.

Speaker 3: 9:23

That's right, stuck in my head for, you know, 40 years or whatever.

Speaker 2: 9:28

Yeah, i think that there's there's been Kind of a shift in our society that says that oh well, you know, there, i think it's mostly rooted in the online conversations that we have.

Speaker 2: 9:40

Right, you know, because it's easy to look or feel or act a certain way when you're across a computer, but then you get in person and and you have to be on, you know if, if I'm not feeling it when I'm remote, well then I can just say hey, guys, unfortunately some things come up and I don't have the opportunity to connect with you. Yeah, but whenever someone walks into your store and they see you standing right there, there's no escaping that, unless you're just being horribly rude. So don't do that, guys. That's spoiler alert. Don't be that person, believe it or not. I've actually seen that person, even in recent days, where you walk in and you you clearly can go up and ask for Help or you, you have the intention, look you know, that you're getting ready to approach them and they're like, and Not calling anybody out, but I will say The store might sound like West, why, i don't know.

Speaker 2: 10:43

So okay, so you started out in retail, you went through, you went kind of into the corporate side. Now You know, like I say, i know you also work with the Robin report. I know you're also you mentioned an associate professor at the fashion Institute of Technology. How did you come into something like that?

Speaker 3: 11:01

Yeah, well, here's, here's what happened. So, if you go back to you know, when I left high school, i didn't know what I wanted to do. Well, i started taking classes at this little tiny school called Fashion Institute of Technology. Yeah, but seriously, it's like the world-renowned school for fashion Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 11:17

And so when I went there.

Speaker 3: 11:18

The teachers were just so amazing. They brought the classroom to life. So we didn't just study a textbook or we didn't just study principles. We actually heard great stories from our professors about what was happening in the classroom, what was happening in the industry, and I said to myself I really want to give back. So I actually started teaching when I came back to New York and I just taught one class. I just one ad. I was an adjunct professor and I just wanted to teach one class because I really in my heart wanted to give back to the community and give back to the industry. So I started doing adjunct teaching when I could and then 10 years ago I became a full-time professor. Now I'm an associate professor and I just feel I come alive. So remember that feeling I told you about when I walked in the store I came alive.

Speaker 3: 12:10

I am most comfortable standing in the middle of a classroom or speaking in front of people. I just love it and I just love the students and I love really feeling like I'm making a big impact on their lives and their future. So I think it's part of my. You know, the greatest work I've done in the industry is really about you know students and about helping people succeed in the fashion industry, and I just wrote a new leadership course that we're going to roll out next year. I've written three courses and I really strive when I'm professoring to. You know, bring relevant, updated content about what's happening in the industry. I got to tell you, brian, that is a full-time job, just keeping updated on current practices in the industries a full-time job.

Speaker 2: 12:58

Absolutely, yeah, i mean because, especially, i mean it seems like every generation says this right, but it is going faster and faster. It is going crazier now and so, especially as we've gotten into some new technologies that have been, you know, released recently and over the last, even like two, three, four years, it's just it seems like that cycle is shortening and shortening, and shortening. And so, you know, i would definitely I do not envy you for the process of having to stay constantly up to date on stuff, because what you say today in a classroom might be different tomorrow. Literally, like literally a 24-hour cycle could change our understanding of something. And so, you know, i think that's really great, because that kind of reminds me of my own college experience and my master's program as well, because, you know, the best classes and the best teachers that I had weren't just going through the books, you know, they weren't just teaching on a broad subject, but they made it applicable to, to the here and now right.

Speaker 2: 13:58

And so, you know, whenever I was in my business law class, then it was truly taught by a judge, you know, who was in the court system here locally, and so she was able to come in and say, hey, here are the types of things that I see come across my bench every day, every week, every month, every year, and so here's the types of things that, as a MBA candidate, then here's what you need to be prepared for on your end so you don't end up coming across my bench at some point. You know, or you know when to take someone else to to a court situation, and so you know same thing. I definitely understand the, the impact of having that, that immediate relevancy of you know any of the content yeah, and I actually I learned a lot for my students too.

Speaker 3: 14:47

I mean, i literally learned so much from my students. So oh, absolutely, it's a two-way street for sure yeah, so now really quick.

Speaker 2: 14:56

Where? where are you at nowadays? where do you live at now?

Speaker 3: 15:00

oh well, i currently live in New York in a place called Croton on Hudson, which is about 40 miles north of the city. But, brian, there's another little interesting fun fact about me okay, i don't think you know it's so funny because I will.

Speaker 3: 15:14

I, i will go through. I went through a semester with students last semester and at the end of the semester they said where are you from? yeah, i, i can't detect your accent, i can't figure it out. And a lot of people tell me this and then I tell them where I'm from and they're like oh my god, that's the most fascinating thing I've ever heard. You should start every semester with this. Okay, i mean, it's me, so it wasn't really interesting to me, but I actually grew up in Japan, iran and Germany really.

Speaker 3: 15:41

I spent a lot of time overseas and then I went and lived in Virginia, new York, california, mostly southern California, the northern California, and then back to New York.

Speaker 2: 15:54

So I've literally moved like 22 times in my life yeah, i, you know I I haven't been that far of distances, but I've moved a significant number of times and yeah, trust me, it's I, i get that, that can. That can definitely shape who you are. And oh, you know the accent and everything. And it's funny too. Yeah, i would. I would not have guessed that. So that's really cool, that's so what was was? were your parents military or anything, or?

Speaker 2: 16:22

yep, exactly yep, always, always know that right. You know it's like there's either military, your missionaries.

Speaker 3: 16:30

You know it's yeah, like a handful of opportunities there to probably get it right yeah, you know what I think when you live in different places and you live in different countries and you live in different states and cities and communities, i just think you have a broader perspective on things. Yeah, it's been great for me to be able to have that type of childhood.

Speaker 2: 16:51

I think it's really kind of crafted who I am today yeah, absolutely, and I think that's really good because, you know, even I didn't have a childhood that, but I definitely had, i'd say, college and forward love to travel. You know, i love to go, experience new things, and so, you know, i definitely agree. I think that that that opens your eyes to a lot of different circumstances, types of people, types of situations, living conditions, transportation options, you name it, it, it. It kind of broadens your horizons to understand what other people are dealing with in their day to day, sometimes so you can aspire to be better. Also, sometimes so you can simply just be grateful for where you're at right.

Speaker 2: 17:43

And so there's a lot of opportunity to reflect on that. So now, do you have you married? do you have kids? you have family pets. What's behind the scenes?

Speaker 3: 17:53

Yes, yes yes, I'm married to a wonderful husband. He's awesome and he supports me just amazingly. I have two sons, which are great. My sons are 18 and 15, soon to be 16. And I also have two stepchildren who are 33 and 35. So we have a nice big family. It's fantastic. And I have a dog that is a mix of breed between a Tomaskin which most people don't know what a Tomaskin is and a black Labrador, And she's just gorgeous.

Speaker 3: 18:26

She's about 55 pounds, so she's a big dog. She's beautiful And her name is Princess Leia, because I'm a super big Star Wars fan.

Speaker 2: 18:35

Ah, fantastic. Okay, So now you just bumped up even a couple more notches there. So then I know we talked about this briefly before you know jumping into the studio here. So I ask and that's, that's not your base over your shoulder there, right?

Speaker 3: 18:51

That's my husband's.

Speaker 2: 18:53

Okay, but you did tell me another interesting fact about yourself You are learning to play the guitar.

Speaker 3: 18:58

Oh my gosh, you said it out loud. Now I actually have to get better at it.

Speaker 2: 19:00

Yes, You know, i'm here to prompt, i'm here to encourage. It's really about motivation, you know.

Speaker 3: 19:08

As I tell my husband, I don't want to. I don't want to join a rock band, for sure. But what I want to do is I want to have a guitar and I want to be able to sit around a fire on a warm summer evening and sing songs with my family and friends.

Speaker 3: 19:20

That's that's all I want to do I very low bar in terms of learning guitar, so you know I have to start by. You know I'm working on learning the notes and learning a few easy songs, yeah And so, yeah, i love it, i just love it. And I'm you can't see this in the video, but I'm small, i'm like five foot three, so I'm really funny.

Speaker 3: 19:41

So when I tried my husband's normal acoustic guitar it's like my arms, like I couldn't even reach, like strings. So he actually bought me for my birthday last year. He bought me a mini guitar. It's a Jasmine mini guitar acoustic guitar. And it's just perfect because it's you know I could easily manage it, so I love it and I'm getting better at it.

Speaker 2: 20:01

That's good. What's a what? just just because I'm silly like this. what's the song that you're working on right now?

Speaker 3: 20:07

Well, i love me and Bobby McGee, because it's a song that reminds me of my mother, because she used to play a version that Olivia Newton John saying way back. Yeah, I can't get a copy of anywhere, But of course Janet Droplin say so I'm working on that one, which is a fun song and means a lot to me.

Speaker 2: 20:25

Oh, that's really good, that's. That's really cool too is that you can, you can kind of tie that into. You know, experiences or songs that mean something to you While you're also doing something that that will eventually mean something to your family, and I think that's really cool. You know, like you mentioned sitting around a fire and just kind of hanging out. We have a fire pit in our own backyard, so I definitely get that, that whole vibe, you know that's great, thank you.

Speaker 2: 20:50

Absolutely So. Okay, so you grew up doing that, doing the, the retail thing. You jumped in at right after high school And then would you say what? what would you say is something that you have seen. You know, i know we've talked about like interpersonal stuff, like that relations, customer relations But is there any area that you have consistently seen kind of just the same challenges in a year after year after year? I mean, what's something I would imagine? you've seen quite a bit of of obvious change, but what has kind of stayed the same in in almost I don't necessarily want to say a disappointing way, but that's kind of the easy way to say it is what's, what's kind of been? what do you wish people could leave behind in the retail industry?

Speaker 3: 21:38

Yeah, i wish you know, I wish we would as an industry, i really wish we would fund more innovation. I just think retailers and I got to tell you what you said earlier about how much we've grown and how everyone does, that I will tell you. Since the pandemic, the retail industry literally grew like 15 years and three years. I mean, we just we have no choice. We had to, like you know, just bear down and and we had to really quickly enable, use, enabling technologies and figure it out very fast. Yeah, sure, all of that, but I wish we would fund an innovation more as an industry.

Speaker 3: 22:16

I think retailers in the past have always kind of done it the way they've always done it. And the other thing I see that hasn't changed and needs to change, while it's gotten better, is this silo mentality has just got to stop. So we have a you know, of course I did it when I introduced myself, i named all the functions you know marketing operations, blah, blah, blah. So we have all these kind of functions and everyone kind of works in their own little silo and the prop. That's problematic, especially now because we really need to be working across functions. And, yeah, we've done, like you know, cross, cross functional teams and I've worked on a, you know many cross functional teams and all of that, but the silo mentality. I'd like to see that change. We just have not been able to, you know, do that in a broad way in the industry.

Speaker 2: 23:08

Why do you think that is? Do you think it's kind of an ego thing? Do you think it's a lack of kind of wanting to release certain things? Or do you think it's just that's the way that we've always done it, so why would we change it if it's not horribly, atrociously broken, you know?

Speaker 3: 23:25

Oh well, I think it's horribly, atrociously broken for sure now, because I mean right now, because of the amount of partners and the amount of things that are happening and retail, the speed to which we're adapting and all of that stuff, I think it is problematic now. I think part of it, yes, is ego, But I also think we just kind of we built this structure of, okay, you're going to be in marketing, So you know, here's the marketing path and here's the merchandising path and here's the planning path, and you just kind of get into your own KPIs, your own metrics, your own kind of world, And it's like you're reading a. You know how you got your nose stuck in a book.

Speaker 3: 24:05

Yeah when you're just not aware of what's happening right there in front of you with the other functions. So I just think it's culturally something that's always been indicative of retail is this kind of silo mentality.

Speaker 2: 24:17

And it's funny to say that, because the first thing this brings to mind, i was actually just overhearing a conversation earlier today intentionally, don't worry, it wasn't eavesdropping, but I was actually overhearing a conversation where this person was. She was describing her dog and her dog's a bird dog, and so this dog is so focused right on sniffing out the scent of something, and so this dog is so focused and her fear is that this dog is going to, based on where they live and the climate right now and everything, this dog is going to come across a snake at some point and it's going to bite the dog, but the dog's not going to see it because the dog is so focused on finding the path right. And I think we in retail, in life, in relationships and anything we can get so in the weeds that you know of the hunt right We're pursuing and we know it, we smell it, we see it, we hear it, it's there. But then you know like you're mentioning the siloing I'll just tie it in with that is you can get so focused on being the expert in one given area that you know a lot of people kind of get. They just get T-boned eventually one day Because over time you might be growing, growing, growing. All it takes is one company, one person, one CEO, one CMO, somebody else saying we're going a different direction And suddenly your expertise is cut short. Right, because at that point if that's all that you know and you don't have that broader picture, understanding of the process and the overall area that you're in, then you're going to have to go horribly backwards to try and pick up some speed again and get another running, start into a different avenue Where exactly what you're saying.

Speaker 2: 26:09

I think, if we were to be able to broaden kind of our learning and make it more of that melting pot approach whenever it comes down to, you know, getting to know each other's jobs, not so we can take each other's jobs, but so that way we can actually better understand what that flow is. You know a lot of people don't understand when they make one decision over here it might impact 15 decisions for other people and other members on the team and they might not grasp that concept. But I think that that's whenever, if they can learn better you know, if they can better understand what the dynamic of one decision is, you know what's that ripple effect, then they're not necessarily going to stay away from that decision, but they would give it some additional thought. But also that makes them very much more intentional with what they do grow in. You know where they do grow in their expertise and kind of their understanding. So that's really good. So I know we're and I tell you what we're flying along.

Speaker 2: 27:13

It does not feel like we've been talking for this long, so so then you kind of grew up in that What are you? let's kind of shift into the current topics. You know we talked a little bit about what's something that people are missing, but what's something that's really got you excited right now in retail, what's coming down the pipeline that you're like, oh my gosh, it's either here or it's like right on the cusp of here And you're like I cannot wait for this to really blow up. What is that for you?

Speaker 3: 27:40

Yeah. So I have something that's really exciting and a lot of people in retail and academia are running away from it and they need to run into it And that's generative AI. It is going to fundamentally change how we do business in retail in many different ways. So I think that retailers should put funding into understanding the technology and understanding you know, it has its dark side and has its bright side, but understanding both those and really utilizing the technology to help us, you know, really speed up the industry. So I think it's going to really change literally how we do business. I think this old, you know, wholesale to retail model is dead and has been dead And I think, retailers really need to think, and some of them have.

Speaker 3: 28:33

And you know one of your neighbors, there is one of the big, big thinkers in terms of this. But they have to really think in terms of a flywheel. You know it's not this linear. You know, wholesale retail, sell it to the consumer. It is a flywheel of many things. So I say those kind of two things.

Speaker 2: 28:54

Well, and especially dealing with fashion. So I got a fun one for you that I literally just did this morning, based on generative AI and the idea of artificial intelligence improving our processes, right. So in technology, there's a lot of stuff, and I actually saw a video about this about a month ago on LinkedIn, where somebody had done this exact same thing, which is definitely what inspired me to take this action today, but I didn't realize just how easy it would be until I was doing it myself. Here's what happened. So I needed to find a shirt, right, and I think this will relate specifically to your fashion side and everything there. I needed to find a shirt. We have an event coming up. We're actually going to be in New York in a couple of weeks for the LEED Innovation Summit, yeah, so we're going to be there And I'm going.

Speaker 2: 29:46

I need a good tech polo. You know something that's going to be wicking, something that's going to fit me decently. You know I'm not exactly the 20 year old shape that I was in, so you know I'm trying to figure that part out. But you know the cool part about and I think that this is where there are so many opportunities for us that people are missing because, specifically, they're afraid of it. They don't understand it, and that's the normal human behavior is to avoid something we don't understand. Right, but I leaned into it today. No joke, this morning I got on Google Bard And because Google Bard can connect to multiple you know the internet and everything it can connect to all the different resources. And I said what is the most popular wicking polo shirt for trade show events?

Speaker 3: 30:35

That's just crazy.

Speaker 2: 30:37

It pops up five results right away and says here's this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, i said of those which is the highest rated, which has the best wicking properties, which has the best fit. Boom, boom, boom And I was able to make my decision, find my shirt and choose it without ever having to try it on, based in about four minutes, three or four minutes this morning, whereas I didn't have to go to a store but I knew exactly what I wanted And I think that's where you know to talk future with you. I think that's where I'm excited to see is I understand technology, the SEO side. I understand the marketing side right, and I think that we've become so accustomed to writing for the algorithm that we tend to you know same thing as what we were talking about the nose of the ground. You're getting really expert in this one area. The same thing this guy said about a month ago on this article I was reading where he found a rain jacket that he wanted using AI. He said you know it's not going to become future.

Speaker 2: 31:45

Listings are going to become less and less dependent upon the words you put into the description and more into the words that the reviewers are leaving for your product Because it's going to be customer experienced based instead of trying to game the system.

Speaker 2: 32:04

Right, because we saw this 15, 20 years ago where websites would keyword load And so you'd have your whole website and then down at the bottom there was this really weird black section, or all white or all blue or whatever else you know. You pick a color, but if you clicked and dragged you could highlight and there were just just 300 keywords crammed in at the bottom. This is before Google started penalizing all that crap, and so you know, i think we're going to see another big shift, just like Google coming along and saying, hey, we're going to penalize you if you throw out a shotgun approach with these words. I think we're getting ready to see another big shift, and especially when it comes to fashion, when it comes to product and actual, like physical product purchases that we're making, because it's becoming so much about that interaction right, it's going to become more about the words from the actual experiencers you know, versus the people who are trying to tell you what experience you should have with their product.

Speaker 3: 33:02

You're spot on with that. I'm a little disappointed. you didn't call me, but okay, i'm not going to take it personally, but I have to tell you that was very efficient, So I want to know when I see you at the leave, I'm going to ask you how you're sure.

Speaker 2: 33:15

So what would you say is let me see how you do here. What would you say, is one of the best, most popular, you know overall brands for a wicking polo shirt right now.

Speaker 3: 33:27

Well, I would say that Nike is one of the inventors of the you know wicking polo shirt. So I would say that's probably top of the list, but I bet there's number three. Was it number three? I bet there's brands you got that are these niche brands that many of us don't even know about. So can I ask you, what was the number one brand?

Speaker 2: 33:48

I'm curious Now so the number one based on the questions I was asked yes, of course, came back as sport tech.

Speaker 2: 33:55

Okay, so sport tech came back because they've kind of gleaned some insights off of Nike and, you know, under Armour and all those guys that are doing the big brands. Sport tech came along And I think that's probably their niche is finding the guys like me who are needing something for a trade show, needing something that feels comfortable, fits well, but yet I'm. I'll be honest, i'm not a brand guy, which is hilarious that I'm in retail. I'm just not. If something's got a massive brand across the front, i'm usually not going to buy that item because that's not why I bought it. That's just me. But I understand the appeal, i understand the necessity of those brands and those branded items, but yeah, no, it ended up being a sport tech for me.

Speaker 2: 34:40

And then Port Authority was the second that they listed And I think that was probably based on price. Price point, for Port Authority is maybe a little cheaper than Nike, but yeah, at the same point it's still right in that same ballpark. So you know, when I ask what was the best, true to fit, because that's another thing for me is that when you're buying a shirt, you never know if a large fits like a large or what it's going to do, and so I asked them to have a full podcast on sizing seriously.

Speaker 2: 35:12

Absolutely, and women's pockets in jeans. Right, you got to have Absolutely. You couldn't even put my AirPods in a woman's pocket on most products that they made.

Speaker 3: 35:25

Oh, now we have the fake pockets that aren't really pockets, but they look like pockets.

Speaker 2: 35:31

Oh, trust me, that drove me bonkers whenever I would wear a sport coat and it would have the sewn shut pocket. I'm like, why would you even put this here? Why, yeah? But I totally understand, because there was a Something I put on the other day and I can't remember what it was, but I had this aha moment and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about when I say it. I turned around and they said what makes that item? I can't remember what it was, maybe it was a jacket What makes that item so great? I was like it has pockets And that was it, and I was like in that moment I realized I now understand why every woman who has ever worn a dress, or man whatever it's 2023, i'm not going to judge The fact is anyone who's ever worn a dress and they go it has buckets, that's so cool.

Speaker 2: 36:24

So that's where it's like hey, you've done that, you know the struggle, you know the pain. And I suddenly got it in that moment. That was it, The generative AI also.

Speaker 3: 36:34

I mean, what I want to make clear with everyone is that that's what you just described is not replacing physical retail. There is a time and place for what you need.

Speaker 3: 36:44

You need it now. You're on a short deadline, you want it now. You don't want to go to the stores, you don't want to go online, you just want to know what to get and you want to get it done And you're going to be here in a couple of weeks, but you know, with that, you also probably want to go in stores sometimes. Sometimes you want to interact with people, and so you really have to look at retail holistically. It isn't one or the other, it's really this holistic view of meeting consumers exactly where they are when they want to shop.

Speaker 2: 37:14

Absolutely, and I think we saw the same thing, you know, when companies started introducing grocery pickup, right, you know, oh well, this is going to shut down the stores. This is going to make it so horrible for everyone. The experience of no. Actually, my wife and I probably spend more when we actually walk into a store now. But we know, you know, we signed up for Walmart Plus, right? So we get groceries delivered, we get grocery pickup, we can do whatever, but nothing is going to replace the idea of walking into a store and going hey, i can actually see, i can sit here and physically compare the multiple items in front of me and see what options there are If I want to walk out of here with this today or if I want to go online and find something after this. Nothing's going to take that experience and completely do away with it, right?

Speaker 2: 38:04

So I saw somebody the other day there was an article about a guy and speaking of AI and like the metaverse, right, he was talking about Roblox and stuff There's, you know the program where he was wanting to build his restaurant in Roblox. And so then, suddenly, these kids, you'd be hanging out on your virtual headset, your VR headset, and you could literally it's kind of a mix between that DoorDash, ubereat something, and so you could literally reach up and if you were within you know Geoblocked area that his store services, you could be in game. Reach up, grab a burger off a shell for whatever, and 15 minutes later it's at your doorstep. It charges to your account. 15 minutes later it shows up at your doorstep and you just grabbed food. Still in the metaverse, you pop your visor up or whatever else you want to do and go to your front door, grab your burger and get right back into it. So I think it's going to amplify experiences. I think it's going to be fun.

Speaker 3: 39:05

Yeah, i mean, i'm a big fan of the metaverse. I do think there's a place for retail in it, so I'm not one of the naysayers, for sure.

Speaker 2: 39:11

Yeah, What do you see as a really cool opportunity for AI with? let's just go specifically fashion. What's a really cool opportunity to see there? Whether it's design or, you know, logistics, implementation, anything like that?

Speaker 3: 39:25

I think the one area that we really haven't done as great a job at is we've done. We're really good at analytics, analyzing the consumer, consumer insights, and we're now pretty specific about where consumers shop and what they do. I think AI can really make a big difference in what I would call this near real time allocation. So we allocate products so far in advance and circumstances change very quickly from the time the consumer purchases it. So from the time the retailer bought it six months, three months ago, consumer situation changes. So if we could have near real time allocation I'm saying, you know, allocate product a week to weeks before it's actually being purchased, think about what that would increase. We would always get it right. We would make sure that we're selling, you know merchandise at higher margins you know, So I think that's a great opportunity.

Speaker 3: 40:23

In use case for artificial intelligence is to use that technology to be able to better understand where and when to put specific product categories.

Speaker 2: 40:33

Yeah, Well, and like, I also think of like real location when it comes to inventory, like surplus inventories and things you know, because AI is going to pick up on those trends a lot faster If it notices a certain shirt or shorts or whatever else is selling through better over in this area, or maybe maybe it's the same exact city but just a different area of the city and maybe it's a different suburb or something, And so you can, AI could, make the call let's move, because you know, based on projections, let's move 50 units over here instead. So then that way it keeps your product selling through. You don't have pissed off customers. You've got really happy managers because they don't have a warehouse or a you know a back room full of stuff You know. I think of.

Speaker 2: 41:16

There was a time back in 2000 and what was that? 2010, whenever I was in living in Texas and I just moved down there and there's a massive flood in New Braunfels And the Walmart that was there was already inundated with their normal it's a very touristy town, right, So they were already inundated with their inner tubes, their floats, their everything else, their towels. What they needed was different supplies. It took them a couple of extra days to figure out oh, I need to reroute this shipment to here and do this and this and this, But then fast forward a year later. That same Walmart was struggling not with the product but with the staffing, because the staffing itself was also still run by an automated projection system based on the previous 365 days of performance.

Speaker 3: 42:07

Of course.

Speaker 2: 42:08

And so when you have a massive flood and you don't need as many people or more people call out or whatever else, then suddenly your numbers are skewed. But AI, i think, has this awesome opportunity to come in and make sure that stores are better staffed, make sure that you know your product is there and to make sure that you know everyone's experience is better, from an internal store experience and from a customer experience.

Speaker 3: 42:33

Agree.

Speaker 2: 42:34

That's really good.

Speaker 3: 42:35

I'm excited about. I want to see all these use cases come to life.

Speaker 2: 42:38

Yeah, yeah, we look forward to it, especially here, retail wire, like we definitely look forward to seeing kind of the different applications. And I mean I got to be honest I'm excited. I'm as I'm as excited for the losses as I am for the wins, because it's never a loss as long as you learn something right. So that that's what I really love seeing fail fast, fail frequently, fail forward, you know so. So let's wrap up. I know where we've been going here, but if you could go back in time, you could go back to, kind of you know, 17, 18 year old Shelley, you're jumping in and you walked in and you said, hey, this is God, this, this feels right, kind of looking back over your career, looking back over the way that you've seen the industry grow. Is there a piece of advice that you would give yourself? You know, do something faster, do something slower. You know, invest in yourself here or whatever that looks like. Is there a piece of advice that you would give yourself if you could travel back in time and have yourself on the shoulder?

Speaker 3: 43:46

Yeah, i would probably tell myself to jump right in and make mistakes. I think I wasn't as risk risky in some of my decisions. I'm very conservative in terms of you know decisions and stuff. So I think jump right in, make mistakes and be resilient and don't take things personally. That was a big discernment, was a big lesson for me early in my young executive career was learning discernment. You know, controlling the things you can control and letting it go the ones you can't control. I had a real tough time letting go of what I couldn't control and I'm going to tell you it was years and years of really trying to learn that you know skills. So that's what I would try to teach myself you know 10 years earlier than I learned it jumping into the industry.

Speaker 2: 44:36

I was definitely into my 30s before I started really kind of grasping what I needed to release, you know, so I get that. Well, Shelly, it has been an absolute blast having you here. You know, I really appreciate you taking time to jump in here with us. And if anybody wanted to reach out to you after this, are they able to reach out? maybe like on LinkedIn or what's kind of the best avenue for someone to reach out and connect with you?

Speaker 3: 45:03

They can definitely connect with me on LinkedIn on LinkedIn. And also they can go to my website, retailshellycom. It's easy to remember retailshellycom.

Speaker 2: 45:14

Perfect. I will make sure that your LinkedIn and retail Shelly are both in the podcast notes here. So check it out, connect with her and do her a favor, by the way, because we all know that there are those people on LinkedIn that are just kind of was that? they call them lion, right, the LinkedIn open networker, and so they're just like they just add everybody. I'm not that guy And also, if I see that your bio says you know, lead gen expert or whatever else, i'm probably not going to accept your request. But, that said, do her a favor, do Shelly a favor. If you are adding her based on this interview, please mention the retail wire podcast to her. Just say you heard about her on here, so that way she knows where you're coming from, you know the way you know her from, so that I think that can definitely help with experience on both ends as well.

Speaker 3: 46:05

So thank you for that. I really appreciate that.

Speaker 2: 46:08

You know I try to look out. So thanks so much, and we will see you again here on the next episode of the retail wire podcast. If you haven't already, be sure, and hit that subscribe button. We're based out of Buzzsprout, but also we can find us on any of your major platforms, so Google, apple, spotify, we're everywhere. Be sure, and hit that subscribe button. We got a whole lot more great episodes coming up. You're not going to want to miss any of them. We'll see you next time. Thank you.