Exploring the Evolution of Retail and Technology with Dave Wendland: Insights, Innovation, and the Impact of the Pandemic

Prepare to be enlightened as we spend some quality time with Dave Wendland, a recognizable figure in our BrainTrust. This fascinating individual, born and raised in Green Bay, Wisconsin, has journeyed through a noteworthy career trajectory. From a humble beginning as the Director of Marketing for Applied Computer Research to the illustrious position of VP of Strategic Relations for HRG Group, Dave's story is rich with valuable insights. We delve into his life, exploring his passion for technology, his profound understanding of the retail industry, and how his hobbies shape him into the person he is today.

As we tread further, you'll get an exclusive front-row seat to the evolution of retail and technology over the past three decades, as narrated by Dave. His experiences, challenges, breakthroughs, and ‘don’t say no’ attitude are motivational. Dave's father's wisdom has been a guiding light for him, illuminating his path to success. His ability to embrace change and innovation has not only helped him navigate the ebb and flow of the retail industry but also redefine his career along the way.

In the final act of our dialogue, we analyze the pandemic's influence on the beauty and pet sectors, and how retail titan Walmart is reacting to the ever-changing landscape. We'll also discuss the leadership traits of Walmart CEO Doug McMillon, and how seemingly unrelated experiences like group activities, waiting tables, and improv can mold successful leaders. So buckle up and join us as we navigate the future of retail, underscoring the importance of agility and innovation in this dynamic industry!

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Connect with Dave on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davewendland/

Check out Hamacher Resource Group: https://hamacher.com/

RetailWire is the retail industry's premier source for news, analysis, and discussion. With a focus on the latest trends, technology, and consumer behavior, RetailWire provides a platform for industry experts and thought leaders to share their insights and perspectives. Whether you're a retailer, supplier, or service provider, RetailWire is your go-to destination for staying informed and ahead of the curve.

Be sure to leave us a comment and let us know what you think. You might even hear your comment read on the next episode!

To learn more, or to join our Daily Discussions, visit RetailWire.com.

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:01

Welcome to the Retail Wire Podcast Hey everyone, welcome back to another great, exciting episode here on the Retail Wire Podcast. We are cranking these things out and I am super excited for the guests that I have in the studio with me. Today We're doing another episode of our Meet the Brain Trust series And so you're going to get to meet one of our Brain Trust members. He's been here for well over a decade and just really excited to have him on. We've been chatting a little bit before jumping into the studio here And I tell you what I think you're really going to like what he has to say. So, without further ado, we've got.

Speaker 2: 0:39

This. Person has been the Director of Marketing for Applied Computer Research. He eventually went on and launched his own company I won't say his name yet because it's in the name of the company But he did that for about four years before eventually joining HRG or the Homaker Resource Group, and he's been with them since around the early 1992. So he's been with them a long time and he's seen a lot of different things and now has ended up in the position of VP of Strategic Relations for the HRG Group. So now we also, like I said, he's been a member of our Brain Trust for over a decade, probably 12,. I think he said maybe 13 years. So welcome to the show, mr Dave Wendland. How are you, sir, hey?

Speaker 3: 1:25

Brian, thank you so much for the opportunity It's. You've paved quite a path here with your previous interviews and the episode, the podcast episodes, as you put out already. I'm delighted to share a couple of things about my view of retail but, more importantly, my passion for retail wire and for this Brain Trust that you've put together of great colleagues.

Speaker 2: 1:49

And thank you so much. Yeah, no, we're glad to have you here because you know this is your show. This is the fun part is that I get to put it together, but truly, man, it's your show, so you get to be the star here. This is your time to shine. You know, if you've watched any other episodes or if anybody's listened to the other episodes, you know this is where you get to meet our Brain Trust. You get to know more about Dave himself, not only as a professional but as a person, what makes him tick, what makes him excited. And so I'm really excited to dive in here because, like I said, we've talked a little bit off camera before jumping in here and you know it's just been really cool to see kind of your insights And we talk about history of technology and stuff, the way the world has changed.

Speaker 2: 2:34

But let's jump in before we get too far into conversation about tech and everything. Tell the folks listening who is Dave Wendland. Tell us about yourself. Do you have you know where do you live, where are you from? And you know, tell us about your family or any hobbies you got. Man.

Speaker 3: 2:51

That's it.

Speaker 3: 2:52

That's an open-ended question. It could take all day talking about my past here, but I'll kind of condense it into a couple of things. Where is my demography been for the last few years? Where am I today? I want to describe a little bit about my hobbies because I think that is interesting And it's as I've listened to some of your other guests, i've put myself in their shoes and said, wow, it's like they're me, because I think a lot of us share common things in life. But going back, i was born in Green Bay, wisconsin, so it was born and raised green and gold Green Bay Packer fan.

Speaker 3: 3:29

I joke with people today. My parents, my late parents, used to play bridge with Bart Starr, doug Hart, jerry Kramer. They'd all come over to the house and sit around to play cards with my parents. So I had a view of the sports world without even really realizing at age five or six that these were important people that would become part of my history. My father was transferred to the Milwaukee area where I went to high school the Milwaukee Wisconsin area just outside And it was really through my father's eyes that I started to get an appreciation for what business was like or, more appropriately, maybe, what distribution and retail was like. He was the president of a drug wholesale company distributing to independent pharmacy and small chain pharmacy. He also had some ties with Walgreens at the time And he'd sit around the kitchen table, brian, and talk about these incredible people that he met, and they were entrepreneur retail owners And I said, dad, that sounds really interesting, but I want to get into technology. That's the future retail not for me.

Speaker 3: 4:46

And so I graduated college and went on to work for technology companies for about eight years combined And had in the back of my car that maybe there was something to this retail. But I was still bent on technology. So I had relocated to Phoenix, lived there for a while, soaked up the desert sun, decided to move to San Diego and hang my own shingle on a marketing agency And my plan was to work with technology companies And my first two clients in the technology vein was a store chain of six retail outlets selling computer software and hardware. So it was technology with retail. This is interesting. And the second client I had was somebody coming to market with a software package that wanted my little agency to help them with design of package, shelf placement and strategy. And I said, oh my goodness, i'm in retail And I never thought I would be Long story, short, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 5:54

I was just saying it's funny how those worlds bleed together, right?

Speaker 3: 5:58

Well and anymore you can't separate technology from any industry, And certainly retail. As a lifelong learner and a shopper and somebody very passionate about it through my training, when I found the opportunity to move back to Wisconsin and join Hamaker Resource Group at that time it was called DP Hamaker Associates. The founder of that company was focused on small independent retail operations and he wanted to grow his business And so our worlds collided and I joined in 1992, as you said, yeah, fast forward. I now live in just outside Knoxville. I relocated to Tennessee earlier this spring and setting a course toward I'll call it pre-retirement, but basically we can work from anywhere. So having the opportunity to look outside and see the Smoky Mountains out one window and see maybe a herd of deer out my back window has become pretty appealing to me And my wife and I enjoy our Tennessee root stuff.

Speaker 2: 7:08

Oh, that's so good. That's so good. So you're kind of living your best life right now. Is that kind of where you're at?

Speaker 3: 7:16

I am desperately trying, brian, to enjoy two sides of the coin. One is, i love keeping my feet in this business and I'm part owner of the company. We have eaten, slept and breathed this company for my full 32 years with it, but we've owned it for just over 21 years and it's been a heck of a ride, because every day there's a new adventure. There's new technology, There's new retail, there's new formats, there's new consumer behavior, there's pandemic that changes everything, while at the same time I have some opportunity. Now I can go and swing a golf club and take a walk outside without the extremes of a Wisconsin winter or a Wisconsin summer.

Speaker 2: 8:03

Yeah, absolutely So I mean. So you said 32 years, right with them.

Speaker 3: 8:07

It's coming up on 32.

Speaker 2: 8:08

Yes, sir, that's incredible. So what made you, or what kind of led to you, mentioned becoming part owner in this? What led to that? How did you say you know were you approached or did you approach them or kind of was a combination of being in the right place and putting in the right legwork?

Speaker 3: 8:28

Yeah, sometimes it's through adversity that you find that there's a new opportunity that's emerging. So Dave Hamaker, the founder of our original company, was retiring and sold the company to a supply chain technology company out in San Francisco, very heavily VC funded company, and it was during the time of the dot com dot bomb age And so they had oodles of money but not a lot of client care and kit gloves that we wanted to continue for our company.

Speaker 3: 9:08

Yeah, so a group of us approached this technology company and actually reacquired it back from them. We were owned by this company for about a year before a group of six of us initially bought the company. We're now at five owners and we're all working managers in the company. It's been interesting because people say to me often asked me, brian, why, how can you be with a company for 30 years? Yeah, you know, that must be boring, that must be. You're obviously just, you know, gliding. Now The reality is I've probably reinvented myself at least six times in 30 years And I would venture to say the retail supply chain, the retail industry, has reinvented itself a minimum of 10 times in that three decades.

Speaker 3: 10:01

Absolutely, whether it's through consolidation, whether it's through shopper behavior, as I talked about a moment ago, or whether it's just globalization of market, and you can go online and find anything you need. And I'm still passionate about brick and mortar and the combination of what I like to call, beyond on the channel, it's omnipresent retail.

Speaker 2: 10:26

Absolutely.

Speaker 3: 10:28

Anywhere, anytime, anyplace.

Speaker 2: 10:30

It's amazing because you know we were chatting just a little bit before jumping on here And one of the things I know that you perfectly summed it up there of how we've gone. If you're watching this on YouTube you'll see what I'm saying. But we've gone from a little cell phone like this. I've got a Sprint. I was at the TP 2100 dual here, so I've got this little guy found this in a box the other day And we've gone from that that maybe you can make some calls and a couple text messages with the you know having to press the button multiple times to get to the right letter to now having a computer completely at your fingertips 24, seven, 365.

Speaker 2: 11:12

You know, and we've got companies like T-Mobile linking up with Starlink to be able to offer global sat, to sell service and everything. So, like you're saying, it truly is omnipresent opportunities to connect with your customers, for customers to connect brands. I cannot imagine yeah, that you say in reinventing themselves at least 10 times in the retail industry as a whole. Yeah, it's absolutely been that. I mean even just since the 80s. It has been such a drastic change.

Speaker 3: 11:44

So you know and it's interesting, brian, it's not just retail, like you said, it's every aspect of life. And my favorite quote is from Oliver Wendell Holmes When he said a mind stretch beat to a new experience never returns to its original dimension. And I think about my late mother when she was early 80s, stricken with arthritis, and we were sitting one day and her hand was specifically challenged that day And she was upset because she wasn't going to be able to play golf that day. And she said, dave, there has to be some exercise that gives me mobility so I can go out and swing a golf club today. And I said, mom, you know, you've been to every doctor and she goes I don't want to go to a doctor. There must be an app for that.

Speaker 3: 12:34

Oh, this was 10 years ago, and my mother, who had just graduated from a flip phone to a smartphone, already realized that consumers were driving her experience and it was. Her mind was stretched to a new experience and she just expected it Yeah, never to return to that old dimension. So I think you know we talk about technology, we talk about the application of where retail is headed, and they are on a collision course. There's intersections in every part of our lives. Yeah, every experience we have will add to, but I like to call the tapestry of our lives. So we're building it and we're forming it together.

Speaker 2: 13:25

Yeah, absolutely. I mean it goes back to don't say just because something hasn't been done before, don't say it can't be done, it just hasn't been done before, That's it.

Speaker 3: 13:34

Well, that's that reminds me of my time doing improv comedy. I was part of a troupe in Milwaukee.

Speaker 2: 13:40

Hang on, you're doing. wait, you did improv comedy, Okay.

Speaker 3: 13:43

I did, i did, i did. Sorry, brian, i did a little bit in Milwaukee, no fantastic. When I went out to San Diego I realized I really missed the. Whose line is it anyway? Actually, i was part of a group called Comedy Sports in Milwaukee which is now national. It was started in Milwaukee but I was in San Diego and I wanted to have a small troupe, so I started a group, ragtag team of performers called ourselves just kiddin' and there were about eight of us and we actually had our own venue and we did comedy based on audience suggestions.

Speaker 3: 14:22

So when you talk about, you never say no to an idea. You never say no to a new experience. That's what we're taught in improv, and one of the questions that I often get asked is what skills should retailers have, what skills should the leaders have? And the answer is always don't say no, don't say, don't put butts in the way. Take an idea and figure it out. Another mentor of mine used to say rephrase the question, and I'd use this with my own kids.

Speaker 3: 15:02

I've got two children, 26 and 21, and I've been married now for three years, recently remarry And I now have a 35 and a 30 year old as well. But my own children. I would say if you have an idea, instead of saying putting up barriers, i want you to reframe it to say if, when I deliver X, how could we do it? My dad actually did this with my then five year old son, harrison, who was sitting with my father and they were buddies. And Harrison said dad said, papa, why aren't airplanes solar powered? Because they could fly every place. And my dad grabbed a piece of paper and said Harrison, come on over here, let's talk about what that would look like. Yeah, instead of saying no, he said what if?

Speaker 2: 16:01

Yeah, instead.

Speaker 3: 16:01

Of saying that's what retailers have to do.

Speaker 2: 16:04

Yeah, and, funny enough, i've actually thought the exact same thing And I'm going. Obviously, i know there's a lot of different power and ratio-wise and everything else torque and all that But at the same point, it's possible. I saw something the other day. My dad, actually for a long time, was researching how to use, how to create a magnetic engine that would run itself perpetual motion, that never needed a battery, never needed a power source, but it would constantly power itself, and no one could come up with how to do it. There had been many people who have tried. There's been a couple of people who tried And let's just say, somehow the government got involved And those people are no longer around in a public setting, so we're just going to leave that alone.

Speaker 2: 16:49

But what we will say is I actually saw an Instagram video the other day of a person who has patented the perpetual motion magnetic engine. Never needs power, never needs anything. He has now patented it. It's real, and he's finding a way to make the amount of torque possible, potentially to drive vehicles, potentially to power a plane, to do whatever. There are so many applications that. So just because it hasn't been done before, don't say that it's not possible. We just haven't figured out the right way to make it happen.

Speaker 3: 17:28

Exactly. I mean, i'm a big Albert Einstein fan as well, and Einstein once said that imagination is a preview of coming attractions. Yes, and I really think, if we use our imaginations, nothing is impossible. It may take more time, it may not be even be in our lifetimes, but we need to start somewhere. Start with the idea, start with the possibility rather than the impossibility.

Speaker 2: 17:57

Absolutely. So, really quick, i'm going to take a pause and go back. Talk about comedy. Do you have a favorite joke? Is there a favorite, oh man, Favorite joke that you have? I can give you a second to think, but I'll also tell you my favorite. Probably my favorite joke of all time has a little more sentimental value to me. So it's not the funniest joke but it is funny. But my grandfather his name is Eli and he actually had a sister named Ruth And one of his absolute favorite jokes of all time was it was actually like a little poem, he said I took a ride on my new motorbike, my sister Ruth in back of me. I struck a bump at 65 and rode on ruthlessly.

Speaker 3: 18:44

There you go, bum-bumps, thank you, it's funny, brian, because sometimes when people hear improv comedy they think immediately stand-up comedy And they think that I could tell jokes as if the day is as long. My wit, my improbabilities have nothing to do with stand-up. The one time I tried that at a Jack Daniels invitational improv contest, i failed miserably. I cannot write comedy. There are good. Oh, I didn't get booed off the stage, but I realized real quickly that I'm much better at responding to situations and being reactive than I am sitting with a piece of paper. Thinking that I'm laughing to myself will bring humor to someone else.

Speaker 3: 19:33

I think the funniest story I can think of, and this is. I don't think it's a great joke, but it was one my dad used to like and laugh about, and you gather it already. My mom played golf, my dad played golf, i played golf. I still do Still play badly. I learned that from my parents. But my dad used to tell the joke of a gentleman who an older gentleman he always called him Bob because that was my dad's name And Bob would join this group and he'd say hey, i don't play golf very, very well And I especially need some help getting out of sand traps. And on the very first hole. Bob hits it in the sand trap And everybody's expecting him to be in there for five, six, seven shots. We've all done it. Bob has a perfect shot, lands right next to the hole And everybody says I thought you needed some help getting out of the trap. He said I do, can you give me a hand? So it's not a great joke But as a golfer I think we can relate to it.

Speaker 2: 20:32

Absolutely Well, and it's funny because it's also it's a perspective joke.

Speaker 3: 20:36

It is a perspective joke.

Speaker 2: 20:37

Everybody expects it to be about the shot, but it's about his literal existence, exactly right, which is to me what sometimes.

Speaker 3: 20:48

Again going back to retail and I know we probably shouldn't, but we all get trapped into these expectations that, ok, it fits in four walls, i've got to carry product on a shelf, i've got to put a cash register up front, i've got to have somebody to move my carts around. Break that all down for a minute and say what does retail really represent? It has to be a relationship between somebody who wants to purchase a product or service and somebody who has it available. I don't care if it's four walls, i don't care if it's on the shelf, i don't care if it goes into shopping cart, but do you satisfy the relationship and the expectation of that shopper? The answer is yes. Now figure it out.

Speaker 2: 21:30

At the end of the day. Yeah, you're exactly right. If it might not be the prettiest process every single time, but if the customer walks away happy at the end of the day, you've done your job well And so I think that's a great opportunity there. Are there any brands that you see really doing well with adapting right now? We mentioned the pandemic a while ago. Obviously It's so funny because we keep getting on podcasts and it seems like everybody's ready to move on and not mention the pandemic, but also, at the same time, we've all learned so many lessons through that time about adaptability, and the successful people can reference it, knowing that it's not about going oh whoa is the pandemic, it's about wow, that really helped me tighten up what I was doing. That really helped me expand my own mind. That really helped me grow and learn. So are there any brands that you're really following or just seeing grow beyond those four walls that you're talking about and really take that customer experience to the next level?

Speaker 3: 22:37

Yeah, i mean it's a great question and there's many examples And I don't know if there's one that I would say has every bit of their act together. I'm impressed with a couple of retailers today. Retail operations I think Walmart is back on its game. It kind of faltered there for a little while. But you look at the technology investments, the storefront investments, the dot-com investments, and HRG has a strong footprint in retail. Healthcare being in health services, walmart's done a really admirable job.

Speaker 3: 23:19

From a private label standpoint, i love what Target has done. I think their own brand, their store brand, has proven to be a pretty good path forward. I'm intrigued by what Dollar Tree is doing in Dollar General right now. Yes, they might falter a little bit from a financial standpoint in a quarter and if you judge their whole entirety by one quarter you're missing the bigger picture And they're delivering some unique experiences. Dollar Tree this week announced they're gonna be into some different price points for food. I think those are some exciting movements. In the beauty space, alta has been at the top of its game. They've done some things on the channel beyond their storefronts. Moving into Target a few years ago was a good move for them. So I like where Alta is going. Beauty as a category is big right now, pet as a category is big, so whether it's Nestle, perina or others other brands doing a great job?

Speaker 2: 24:27

Yeah, do you see you mentioned Pet. You touched on that a minute ago. Do you think that that was? from what I can tell, that was extremely perpetuated and amplified by the pandemic, because people were home with their pets more right, like you got more FaceTime with them than you've probably ever had in your life because you were stuck and they were your coworkers, they were your office mates for three years essentially, and so, even as people are coming back to work, we see more companies being more willing to accept maybe a pet coming to the office occasionally, not all the time, but as long as it's a well-behaved pet, you can bring them around now.

Speaker 3: 25:08

We did it in our office, and there's barely a day goes by where there isn't a dog or occasional cat in the office. We haven't allowed lizards and snakes yet. I don't know why.

Speaker 2: 25:19

You know, why not, let's get a parakeet or something there too? Wait, no, that'd be probably messy, nevermind.

Speaker 3: 25:25

But that perpetuation of the category to your point, you know, similar to beauty and pet, in my opinion have been two explosive categories. Beauty, because we all took our masks off and realized we had beards, which I didn't before the pandemic. You maybe didn't either, although I think maybe you were going with one. On the other hand, everybody was caring for themselves above the mask, so eye makeup and eyeliner and eye whitening were very big during pandemic. Now, all of a sudden and dry, lips were big, but now it's lipstick and mascara and other, or rouge and foundation and things that I don't know anything about.

Speaker 2: 26:09

That's okay.

Speaker 3: 26:10

Are really popular Pet same thing. People leaned into the pet category. We saw them pop up in a Lowe's hardware stores, a home improvement stores. All of a sudden there's Petco inside. We saw Chewy take off. We saw some Prada. Bauchan Lone launched AI care product for pets under a different name I believe it's Dr Watson's And all of a sudden pet became explosive. I don't see it going any place. But continued trajectory forward and innovation is gonna drive that. Fresh food, freeze, dried food, cooler sections in the main aisles, pet care services. Heb did something incredible. They don't even offer pet babysitting and they devoted a whole wall of their store to local services that could be available for HEB shoppers, including pet care, pet walking and pet washing.

Speaker 2: 27:13

Yeah, well, and Walmart just recently announced their partnership right with POP P-A-W-P, and so Walmart plus, you get like a one year I think it is membership with POP. You get healthcare for your pet, kind of on call, is what I'm understanding.

Speaker 2: 27:29

And so it's like I can call them up and say, hey, Pido's got this issue, How can I treat it? or what do you recommend? And so I think you mentioned Walmart's really back on their game and I agree, I think that they kind of sidestepped for a while and they almost lost their way, as I think I would say it was in the earlier years of Doug really finding his footing and taking the helm. I think that he took on a lot of challenges that he probably wasn't expecting. Maybe And I don't know maybe I'm completely shooting in the dark on that one, but I saw him come in and I've met him on a handful of occasions. He's always the kindest, gentlest guy. But also you can tell he's got that determination. He is a true legend in retail when it comes to recognizing a customer's need and trying to help redirect and bring everyone under the same direction, the same umbrella. He's got a really great vision.

Speaker 2: 28:26

So if anyone here is not familiar with Doug McMillan, go out, research him, look up some videos of what he's doing. It's funny because you might see him on a YouTube video and go. He is totally fake. He's PR'ing it right now. No, I can tell you, I personally have interacted with him on many occasions. He's real, he's legit And I think, as more companies get authentic in that view, we're seeing more CEOs, CMOs, CFOs getting on TikTok, getting on Instagram, having their own personal channel where they're showing who they really are, aside from just the brand, And it's playing to their advantage. Right now It's doing really well.

Speaker 3: 29:07

I think it's become very apparent that he's very customer-centric. In other words, I'm going to identify the needs that customers have and we're gonna figure out a way to deliver to that. If we can't do it ourselves, we're gonna look outside and partner with Samba 8 Pop as a good example to bring a service forward.

Speaker 3: 29:28

Again, i talk with my own children and young folks quite often about what are the leadership traits And Doug certainly has them And there's three things that kind of shaped my leadership that I think Doug probably embodies extremely well And I think all of us could benefit from. One is get involved in an organized group activity. In my case early on it was orchestra and band, although I was in sports teams as well. But orchestra and band to me were ideal learning grounds because you're playing something individually as an instrument but you're part of a group in an organization that's delivering something collectively. So I say, get involved in some group activity where you can be an individual but part of a team.

Speaker 3: 30:20

The second thing that helped me significantly and I would love to sit down with Doug and ask him if he's ever had this personal experience. But I waited tables through college and having the opportunity to serve somebody requires three things keen listening skills. You better get it right. I was at a country club where the expectation of our general manager was you didn't write anything down and you listened intently, yeah. Two, it taught you how to relate with people. Thanks a lot. You're serving guests in a restaurant. You put on your happy face. It's more than play acting you are the restaurant to them.

Speaker 3: 31:01

And then the third was attention to detail. You needed to make sure that when you're delivering that food, that you're serving from the right side and clearing from the right side and minding what's going on in that table. So that was the second skill set that I believe leaders could benefit from. And then the third was improv. Again, i don't know if Doug ever did improv stage work, but he did some play acting and he did some portrayal, setting himself out there. I think improv gives people the opportunity to be comfortable in their own skin and learn not to reject ideas but rather accept and invite others into a conversation. And again, doug McMillan, i know myself in that camp, brian, you seem to be in that camp of willingness to be curious and then reacting in a way that delivers.

Speaker 2: 31:55

Absolutely, i think that is. I'm a firm believer and I'm probably almost to a fault that food service and some form of retail service should be kind of mandatory for up and coming students.

Speaker 3: 32:10

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 32:11

Graduating high school or college. There are people who will absolutely contradict me and say that I'm wrong and that's okay, but I am a firm believer that they teach those positions and they teach it differently. So I think that, realistically, if it were up to me, if I were leading something like a class or curriculum requirements, i would say you need at least one semester work in food service. You need at least one semester work in a retail sales environment like a sales floor, like. I worked in many restaurants, fast food and sit down services in high school and college. Both I worked in the buckle and a few other retail establishments as I was in college And it taught me so many lessons, not only about how to serve customers, but also about what I really wanted to do, who I was and who I wasn't, what I was willing to put up with.

Speaker 2: 33:11

In some situations I actually had a manager. I won't say where I was at, but I had a manager that actually accused me of theft And she just knew it was me. She knew it was me. There was no other person that it could have possibly been. I was the only one on the floor at that moment when that had to have happened. And what's so funny is I stood my ground, i didn't cave and I knew it wasn't me. But when and I said okay, she's like, well, we're gonna call the cops, they're gonna show up and you're gonna stay here and everyone, no one's leaving this building And there was me and like three or four other associates on the floor at that time And they said we're gonna do this and we're gonna find out and we're gonna hold you accountable.

Speaker 2: 33:53

I said go for it, have fun. I didn't get disrespectful, i just said go for it, they go back, the police show up, they review the tapes with the management come to find out it was this other young kid who had literally that was his first day working there, but he had gotten a job because he had. Actually there was a whole fun story on it And the summation is that apparently this kid was a high schooler, like senior. He had taken at that point, obviously marijuana was of a completely different acceptability, but apparently he had taken a deal with somebody who was a distributor and he decided he was gonna sell that at his school. Well, his parents found out, made him flush the product And so he was stealing from the store, trying to offset the pay his dealer. That's not a fun one. Don't do that, kids.

Speaker 3: 34:48

That's a life lesson that unfortunately for that individual was very painful And but it also taught you tremendous skill, which is stand up for what's right, be of high integrity And, when put to the challenge, accept the challenge and hold your ground. And I think that's tremendous. I honestly believe that getting in and out of stores and being curious about what's going on is a lesson that anybody involved in retail should never stop. I'm in and out of stores all the time. All of our company, all the folks at HRG, are required not required by mandate, but enjoy going into stores And we see so much. It was Yogi Berra said you can see a lot by looking around, and I think looking around in retail is really important Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 35:50

As we're kind of wrapping up here, there's one question I always love to ask, and that is if you could go back in time when you were just getting going. We've touched on a lot of different topics. We've touched on a lot of different areas. You're talking about curiosity, you're talking about being adaptable. If you could go back when you were just getting going on your retail journey, is there a lesson that you have learned? What would one piece of advice maybe be that you would go back and tell yourself Whether that's about advancing yourself faster or maybe advancing yourself slower and saying, hey, pay attention, what else? what's the one piece of advice you would give yourself? do you think?

Speaker 3: 36:36

I honestly, brian, i'm learning every day. I've made far more mistakes than I have corrections, which makes no sense whatsoever, but I make a mistake every day and I learn from it And I guess the willingness to test and fail, the willingness to put yourself out there and try something new, being from Wisconsin, which is a pretty conservative, pretty pragmatic state, where we draw, when we color in a coloring book, we color between the lines, right. Honestly, i never did. I like to color in the margins and let the picture pop out the middle, so we need to do that. In retail I didn't do that, as early in my career I didn't think I had permission to do that. I'd meet with clients and they'd say what do you think I should do? And I would give them the answer I think they expected to hear.

Speaker 3: 37:36

What I wish I had done is said let's try something new. I've reached the point now in my career. If somebody comes to me with a new brand and they say do you think this will do well in retail, i'm not bashful about saying your baby is ugly. We need to go back to the drawing board Because I don't wanna see anybody fail That fast. Let's get it right, but let's do it in a way that is courageous while at the same time inventive.

Speaker 2: 38:06

And I love that because we've mentioned it a couple of times on the podcast here and in different conversations of fail fast, fail, frequently fail forward. And it's just that curiosity, that willingness to take a gamble, but it needs to be, like you're saying, a calculated risk. right, Correct? You don't wanna be reckless.

Speaker 3: 38:26

I mean it isn't about throwing caution to the wind and just doing whatever you want. There have to be some rationale and it has to be rational. Once that's done, I've got six or seven book ideas wrapped around in my head that someday I'm going to write, and maybe retail wire help me get there. But most of them have to do with creativity, imagination and execution. If we can do any of those three things, or all of those three things, we're going to be better served.

Speaker 2: 39:01

Wow, It's really good. Dave, Thank you so much for jumping in with me today. This has been a fantastic conversation. I've really enjoyed it and I know that I'm going to enjoy getting to know you even better through the years here at Retail Wire and in the future, And so really really appreciate you, man. Appreciate the opportunity, Brian, to have a great Fourth of July. Hey, you too, And if you're just, if this was your first episode listening to the Retail Wire podcast, thanks for joining us. We really really appreciate you. Be sure and hit that subscribe button If you really enjoyed this episode.

Speaker 2: 39:33

Share it with a friend, Copy the link, send it out to him. Dave is a master at what he does, And so him the entire Retail Wire Brain Trust. We're adding new people this year as well to the Brain Trust, So feel free to check out our other episodes. We'd love to have you do that. If you want to see what Dave and I look like, you can head to our YouTube channel at Retail Wire, And so you can actually look us up there. Never mind me, I'm wearing an athletic shirt today, whatever, But so thanks again for jumping in, Dave. One last question for you If people want to follow up with you after this. Is that okay? Could they maybe do that through LinkedIn, Or is there a certain area that, maybe a website or something that they should visit you at?

Speaker 3: 40:21

Well, I think LinkedIn is a pretty good choice to connect with me personally, And all my contact information is there, and I welcome any conversation, Brian, with enthusiastic listeners. If you want to know more about Hamaker Resource Group, hamakercom h-a-m-a-c-h-e-rcom is the place to go. We've got some really smart, talented folks on our 50-member team who are passionate about working across the retail supply chain.

Speaker 2: 40:50

Absolutely, and I'll make sure and put I'll put a link to your LinkedIn and to Hamaker Group's website down here in the show notes of this. So if you want to check those out, feel free and do that. Like I said, mash that subscription button. We're on all your favorite podcast platforms out there, so there's never a reason to miss us, and we've got even more great content coming up, like this conversation I've just had with Dave. So thanks again and we will catch you guys soon on the next episode here on the Retail Wire Podcast.

Speaker 1: 41:19

Thanks for tuning in to the Retail Wire Podcast. We hope you enjoyed the episode. Be sure to subscribe to us on your favorite podcasting platform and leave us a comment for a chance to hear it read on the next show. See you next time here on the Retail Wire Podcast.